The First Berserker’s Ben Starr and Studio CEO Converse: Powerful Video games, AI and Extra

I have been having fun with The First Berserker: Khazan, the Souls-like darkish fantasy motion recreation that was launched on March 27. Throughout this 12 months’s Sport Builders Convention, I sat down with a number of the growth group to speak in regards to the newest recreation within the Dungeon & Fighter collection — and far more, from issue in Souls-like video games to AI within the business. 

I spoke to Myeongjin Yun, CEO of developer Neople, and Ben Starr, the voice of the titular character Khazan and lots of different iconic gaming roles together with Clive, the protagonist of Last Fantasy XVI.  

We talked about the place the sport matches within the bigger Dungeon & Fighter universe, how they tackled making a brand new entry within the crowded souls-like style and the place AI matches inside their respective fields. This interview has been flippantly edited for readability.

Sean Booker: What’s Dungeon & Fighter and the way does it relate to The First Berserker Khazan? 

Myeongjin Yun: So principally Dungeon & Fighter is an motion RPG, it has been in service for 20 years as of this 12 months in Korea. And Khazan really performs a really core a part of the story. So there’s this iconic class in Dungeon & Fighter referred to as the Demon Slayer, they usually have a cursed purple arm. It is a part of the lore, and principally Khazan is on the core of like, how that got here to be, why all Demon Slayers have that purple arm.

Then with The First Berserker: Khazan, we needed to go a bit bit deeper into the story and into the universe about, like, , what function does Khazan play in establishing the Dungeon & Fighter universe. How does his story develop? 

SB: Ben, what drew you to this undertaking? 

Ben Starr: Cool, cool undertaking. I keep in mind seeing the primary ever glimpse of it, I believe in The Sport Awards a few years in the past, and I simply thought it was the good wanting recreation and I am such an enormous fan of this style of video games, like hardcore motion RPGs is one thing that I’ve a deep, deep love on. After I did a blind audition for this recreation, however I knew precisely what it was as a result of I might already form of been maintaining tabs on it as a fan. After which I simply noticed what they have been doing with story — I believe with most actors, all they wish to do is inform good tales and be good characters and it was simply actually, actually enjoyable. And I like, , a brooding protagonist who’s on a path for revenge, however this simply felt actually completely different and funky and I like the artwork model. 

And I actually love that the important thing of this story is the dynamic with Blade Phantom, and I am actually nice buddies with Anthony Howell who performs Blade Phantom, and I believe he is such an incredible, superb actor. To get to work alongside him is simply this unbelievable present.

SB: Would you say folks must be conversant in Dungeon & Fighter to be able to play The First Berserker, and if not, they usually needed to, the place within the IP would you level them? 

MY: You may undoubtedly play and luxuriate in Khazan, even for those who didn’t know the Dungeon & Fighter IP in any respect. The setting, the training curve, and even the story was all made with people who find themselves new to the Dungeon & Fighter IP in thoughts. After all, if the unique story, you’ll have much more enjoyable like, oh, here is an Easter egg right here and there. For instance, within the authentic Dungeon & Fighter, when Khazan will get exiled to the mountains, the story form of ends there, and we do not actually go that a lot into element about what occurred to Khazan after that. However right here it form of expands on the what if setting, so what if Khazan did not die in that exile snowy mountain? What if he stayed alive? What if he simply continued his revenge? 

SB: Dungeon & Fighter video games are usually beat ’em ups, and there is additionally a preventing recreation. Now with Khazan we’re going right into a Souls-like motion recreation. Why the transition to this new style? 

MY: We needed to discover a means for everybody to get immersed within the story, for them to actually expertise what it means to play Dungeon & Fighter. However then for those who take a look at the unique recreation, it is a pixel recreation. It is also facet scrolling and that is not the preferred style as of proper now. And so we have been considering, if we take into consideration style, what could be the easiest way to succeed in these gamers?

And naturally, , we wish 3D and we now have this particular artwork model. We did take inspiration from video games like Darkish Souls, Sekiro, and Nioh as a result of I really personally love these video games as effectively, however then, it does play rather a lot nearer to the unique Dungeon & Fighter, which is a hardcore motion RPG at its core. So we actually simply needed to emphasise, , that feeling of taking part in the unique and being true to that, and in order that’s what sort of ended up being Khazan. 

SB: There’s an ongoing dialogue about issue settings in these extra hardcore motion video games. Not solely does Khazan have a straightforward mode possibility, however it additionally has this lacrima system, the place you possibly can maintain going in opposition to a boss and nonetheless progress. What have been your ideas on issue?

MY: That is a joke as a result of final 12 months at Gamescom I used to be requested if we deliberate so as to add issue settings, again then I mentioned no, we’re not gonna do this. However then winter, like in December final 12 months, we really did add a straightforward mode, proper? And after we first thought in regards to the issue settings and maintaining it onerous, we needed gamers to actually simply really feel the hardships that Khazan was going by, all the issue that he was going up in opposition to, however then we actually thought to ourselves, like, what do we wish from this? Like, what do we wish the gamers to really feel on the finish of all this? 

After all, there is a sense of accomplishment from going by all these challenges and simply getting higher, however then we additionally needed to make this expertise much more accessible to gamers and for extra folks to know what it feels prefer to be immersed in Dungeon & Fighter.

There was plenty of inside dialogue on whether or not we ought to be including the issue settings or not, however then ultimately, we determined to take action. Personally, I like Souls video games, however I would not say I am an professional grasp participant in Souls video games. Maintaining that in thoughts, we needed gamers who will not be that good at controlling or dodging to additionally be capable of progress by repetition, and for them to actually really feel a way of development in order that they will benefit from the recreation additionally. 

BS: I’ve simply been massively impressed with the best way the group has continually engaged with gamers and interfaced with the group. Contemplating this can be a single participant hardcore motion RPG, the truth that you as a group have continually gone, here’s a model of the sport to play, please go and play it, give us suggestions — that form of actually nice dialog you have had with the general public and the way you have listened to folks and what they need and what they do not need, is actually attention-grabbing.

When you concentrate on how we use the phrase hardcore, immediately what you suppose is “this recreation is not for me.” However really going, “it may be, and really you possibly can select to play the sport nonetheless you need” [has] been actually pretty. 

SB: As somebody behind the scenes, what are your ideas on AI rising within the video games business? 

MY: Undoubtedly we’re conscious of what AI can do and in addition the moral arguments that we’re having round it, and undoubtedly round voice appearing and all that as effectively. Personally, I really feel that within the house of recreation making, within the house of growing video games, AI undoubtedly will increase accessibility and permits smaller groups to give you nice concepts and develop new video games in many alternative genres and simply actually deliver their concepts to life.

However then we additionally must be very conscious of the truth that we’re on this very chaotic center floor right here. There are plenty of arguments about whether or not that is moral. We see plenty of circumstances of copyright infringement, so we actually must study the place to attract the road and the way we have to function inside a protected boundary. So undoubtedly it has plenty of potential, however then it additionally entails much more dialogue as effectively. 

BS: Yeah, it is form of the identical factor, which is that AI is not inherently dangerous, it is what the human fingerprint that holds it does with it. AI can be a really poisonous phrase to make use of as a result of it is virtually like it’s now not about AI, it is about all the issues round it. You stroll round GDC proper now and you’ll hear many conversations in regards to the significance of machine studying and the way worthwhile that’s. 

I am an actor and clearly it is a highly regarded matter proper now for what we’re doing. I believe what SAG-AFTRA are doing proper now, what the actors are preventing for is extremely necessary, and it is superb that they’re elevating the significance within the public sphere. Finally AI is not the issue. AI generally is a great, great software for folks to make use of in the proper fingers, however it’s like each single dystopian apocalyptic film from the 90s. It is like Skynet, man, is it coming? And it must be in the proper fingers. In the proper means it may be used and helpful and great, however as you mentioned, there needs to be regulation. 

Know-how is transferring so quick that laws can’t sustain and we have to make it possible for we’re placing issues in place so when this know-how does advance to a degree the place it is doing a little form of loopy issues, we have already got these laws in place and we’re not reacting [by] stopping these issues taking place within the first place.

SB: Once you’re not engaged on Khazan, what are you taking part in proper now? 

MY: As a developer, I first got here into the business as a result of I like video games and I like taking part in video games, however then it has been ironic as a result of I have never been capable of play a lot. You hear plenty of different builders say “oh, I like to play video games,” however then these days like gaming is definitely extra analysis, and so you’ll hear plenty of builders saying that. I do not need this remark to sound too businessy, however I even have been taking part in Khazan, and it is great. 

BS: I just lately purchased myself a Steam Deck. I’ve been a PlayStation child since I used to be very, very younger and that was my main and nonetheless is my main gaming machine. However I discovered myself touring a lot that I used to be like “I must get a Steam Deck.”

On the best way right here I did 4 hours of Vampire Survivors. I did about 3 hours of Half-Life 2, which nonetheless holds up. My phrase, does that recreation maintain up. And I believe they have like RTX there that simply got here out. The sport collection that actually caught me up to now couple of months are The Case of the Golden Idol and The Rise of the Golden Idol. 

I simply suppose they’re great, and even in these three video games that I’ve listed they’re in the identical concept of video video games, however they inform tales in utterly alternative ways. Vampire Survivors does not actually inform a narrative in any respect, however it’s simply great how we will interface with that and tales might be revealed to us in all of those methods, and I believe the Golden Idol collection is actually, actually, actually particular.